User blog:Superior-chan/Surface Fighter Analysis - 2
Wandering around the internet, I've found a few misconceptions about certain types of TSFs. Most of them are minor but there are a few major ones I'd like to record down here for the sake of logkeeping. '' *'The Takemikazuchi is overengineered and costly compared to other 3rd-generations.' :: ''Hangar queens, takes too long to repair 0/10 wouldn't ride and overpriced pieces of shite are a few more additional tags to the Takemikazuchi's reputation of incredible close-quarters anti-BETA capability, which the Japanese, or at least the Royal Guard demanded of their next-generation machines; they are, after all, looking for the right time to take back Sadogashima, which Yuuko merely allowed to happen much earlier in Alternative thanks to the XG-70. Now, while that may be true, you have to compare and contrast the wartime production capabilities of two different nations. For easy comparison, we'll be using the F-22A Raptor as a basis. :: The Empire of Japan, having half its original land flattened (as can be seen while Maidzuru Naval Base exists in 2001, Miho Bay is still in terrible ruins as of 2000; reconstruction efforts would likely take time), would be in no position to continue wartime operations had it not shipped its industries off to some other land (namely, Australia) in order to keep them safe. It's easy to just say "oh, so their production capabilities are still intact", but with the logistics requried to ship components and disassembled parts here, there and everywhere, this means that the Empire has a safe, but very, very long supply line; such that if a TSF is damaged by more than 40%-50%, it would be easier to scrap it for spare parts and wait a week for a new one from Australia to ship here, than send it back to the main plant in Australia for repairs for a good two weeks or so. Think of Japan as one entire gigantic forward base from which the IJA/MDF operates from; in that retrospect, the USA has it far easier with its larger base of F-15 Eagles forming the bulk of its army and its F-22As; the former is easier to maintain (an important part of its userbase popularity) and the latter is hardly deployed in punishing combat conditions on any regular basis. Reduce the US to 1/10 of its size, and we'll likely obtain the same situation as Japan has. :: We all know that the Type-00 uses high-quality precision-manufactured parts to obtain its high performance, and that the manufacture of said parts are really testing the limits of the Empire's industrial capabilities; the same way that the historial Imperial Navy envisioned their'' A-150 battleships to be, but, had they started production, could not manufacture according to specifications because their industry couldn't support the construction of the parts they required (such as their hull armor). Given the Type-00's tight maintanence conditions (not suited for commoner plebian parts after all) one of the old misconceptions is that just maintaining one is a challenge unto itself. In the Defence of Yokohama Base you see Tsukuyomi Mana and the three stooges going melee numerous times, and at the end their Type-00s were ready for mankind's largest operation with nary a complain. Yes, the Type-00 uses highly-exclusive parts, but at the same time it ensures that only parts that can withstand the conditions set down by the Royal Guard's QCers are used. In effect, you get a unit that is capable of alot of abuse before it really breaks apart; given the Royal Guard's not-so-active nature a Type-00 could probably go awhile before needing a joint swap. Compare a sword forged by a master blacksmith and strengthened numerous times, polished to a finish with a conforming grip, to some rusty shard of metal you picked off the ground. Now, if some axe-armed bandit were to accost you and you struck back with the sword, you could expect to win pretty easily, as opposed to having your rusty shard proken while blocking one of the bandit's blows. It's an extreme comparison and there are some holes with it, but this is essentially the Type-00's comparison to a Type-94 in the long run. :: Secondly, the F-22A by itself, or any of the other 3rd generations for that matter, are nowhere near as easy to manufacture as compared to the Type-00. For the purpose of ease of discussion, we'll split the 3rd generation TSFs of pre-Operation Ouka into three camps; 'basic, ''advanced'' and ''expert''; do note that this is not wholly true, consistent nor accurate, but rather to give you an idea on their performance parameters as described by the lore. As you guessed it, basic is occupied by the Type-94 and JAS-39 with the Type-94-1C placed ahead of them, advanced begins with the Type-00C and ends with the rather equalized trio of Rafale, Typhoon and Type-00A. On the expert level we have the Type-00F on the low end, and the Su-47/F-22A/Type-00R/-00R Takemikazuchi Shogun on the high end. :: ''Rafale/Typhoon'' :: Now, the Rafale, first deployed in 1998 has about 100 units in operation as of 2001; a respectable number, considering that France is shouldering all the production responsibilities, but nothing to be wowed over since the Rafale isn't anything groundbreaking. The Typhoon's number is unspecified, but we can see normal units in operation with the British Army in addition to the Zerberus Bataillon, so their numbers can't be too shabby either. Maybe a 60-100 to give an idea on how many might be across the entire European Union; maybe it might be less because it was just recently deployed, it might be more because of all the nations using it. :: ''Su-47 Berkut'' :: As for the Su-47, typical Russian/Soviet style seems to have the Red Army using equipment varying from the supremely old to cutting-edge (MiG-27 to the Su-47). No numbers have been given for anything; indeed, for being the second world power the Soviets have had the rug pulled out from under them in terms of background material aobut such things.All we know is that the Su-47 is in use with the 43rd Guards Tactical Armor Division; going by that alone, it could either be one squadron, or a more impossible thought; one brigade is two regiments at least and one division is two brigades. As one regiment is 108 machines, that means that a fully-equipped 43rd Guards Tactical Armor Division would have close to 430+ TSFs at the minimum, even if rough calculations were done using both army organization and air force organization systems. One look and that number is straight out of the window, at least for the Su-47's possible production numbers. :: ''Type-00 Takemikazuchi'' :: For the Type-00, it's been specified that the 30 units a year, for now, refers to all the Type-00 variants (making it about 2.5 TSFs per month on average). As of 2001, their maximum numbers should be about slightly less than 60 TSFs produced. Ikaruga's 16th Battalion is the only unit stated to be "activated as a Type-00 battalion", making their numbers about thirty-six machines. The 19th Independent Flight has another four, we know Yui has one, and then we add in four more destroyed from Takatsukasa' mixed unit to make that a maximum total of 45 known, plus one for the Shogun, which makes it 46 confirmed units. The existence of more than one prototype is confirmed, but not specified, so we'll give it a leeway of maybe 46-55 units, and also to leave some space for the other Regent House who might or might not have their own units; we know they lost four due to Hetare Eishi Kawaii Takatsukasa. This new information, of course, invalidates all the comments about the Type-00 I've said so far on its page, since IW states that the 16th Battalion is the only unit in full command of the Takemikazuchi, with most of the Royal Guard stuck in legacy Zuikakus. :: Adoration isn't much of a help in this aspect; Makabe's unit is battalion-sized according to TSFiA (35 people respond to him when he tells them to charge), while the CG shows probably a regiment of 108, and I don't have access to Adoration at the moment to check if Makabe says daitai ("battalion") or rentai ("regiment"), or the ever-annoying butai, which can mean anything from squad to team to squadron to brigade to corps. :: ''F-22A Raptor'' :: For the F-22A, we only ever see the Hunters operate them. We know four units were first rolled out at Langley in March 2001, and by December, there's at least enough of for one battalion. IRL, Raptors were in production at about a pace of about two per month for over 15 years from 1996 to 2011 (at the very minimum giving us (2x12) x 15 = 360 aircraft); given that the number of F-22A in existence capped at about 195 for both prodution and test types we can assume that two per month was the stock optimistic phrase report-writers often fell back on when it came to the end of the month. I don't claim to be an expert on the inner workings of Lockheed though, so any information on the manufacture schedules of IRL F-22As are welcome.Now, in Muv-Luv, alot of people compare the Type-00's overly-precise engineering against the F-22A's percieved ease of production. With four in March, we can, for the sake of having a solid point to stand on, factor in wartime production to make it about 4 x 8 months = 32 units, assuming they don't increase to being 8 Raptors a month (being the 12/5 Incident, we're not going to take the month of December into account). :: As you can guess, F-22As have equally stealthy components and sensitive electronics that aren't much easier to manufacture than the Type-00/Rafale/Typhoon's reinforced joints or Blade Edge Armor, the only saving grace being the US's large industry giving them more leeway. So while the Type-00 seems excessive, the F-22A is equally guilty of the same thing, except for different goals. Both are over-speced, except that one happens to be so while fighting BETA while the other is overpowered due to its focus on fighting human opponents. Probably the least suffering are the EU, the Soviets and East Germans, who've somehow managed to churn out the Rafale/Typhoon and MiG-29OVT/MiG-35. Not much has been said for the latter except that they seemed to have achieve comparable performance using relatively uncomplicated technology, but the Typhoon is one of the rare few 3rd generations without any attached negativities by their users or witnesses, a status which the Shiranui Second also managed to eventually obtain. :: Alternatively, think of it this way; both the Type-00 and F-22A are engineering marvels, with the exception that one was designed by a nation with its capability to produce them stretched beyond thin, and the other by a relatively unscathed supernation that's been leading the technology race for years with no damage to its infrastructure. Over-engineered is a myth, because if that were the case, then the US would be guilty of it since the technology they use is more often than not created for the sole purpose to to produce next-generation components, as opposed to using not-so-new but workable items. One look at the development of stealth will tell you that; the F-117 wasn't born in a single day, and neither was airframe shaping for stealth obtained by randomly creating angles. It takes years of study driven by a single purpose (in this case, the reduction of radar returns) to bring about advancements like this. *'''Missile Combat :: Unin has already made a good point on why missiles shouldn't be used more. :: I never understood why the Raptor was ever considered an anti-TSF-only weapon. If it was purely anti-TSF, why are there no smart/guided ordinances? Yeah, machinegun dogfights are cool, but does aborting the jet-age with laser spam really curtail the development of anti-air missiles? '' :: In TE, the squadron leader of the B-1B Lancers heading for Yukon Base warns his squadron of SAMs being used against them. Now, I know B-1Bs aren't aircraft F-15s, but neither are they B-52s; at the very least, missile technology has progressed past the shitty AIMs used in the Vietnam War-era, and they haven't changed much since then to now in the 2010s'. In TDA, Miono is chased by a sea-launched (to be more accurate, ''Watadsumi-launched) tracking missile of unspecified type; she eventually dodged the missile using thrust vectoring. :: Then, it took thousands of sensors seeded into the ground of the border for Sagiri to corner Walken (JP wiki says so, I'll give it the benefit of doubt), and the AIM-54 of the TSF-14 Tomcat is GPS-guided and smart enough for automated NOE flight. Radar arrays are small enough to be 1/4 the size of their launchers, and TSF computers are advanced enough to identify and lock onto BETA targets of all shapes and sizes and launch radar-guided missiles at them. Yuuya in TE does turn back to fire 36mm rounds at the missiles chasing him and successfully hits a few, proving that gun intercepts can be done. So the problem doesn't really tie into the sensors, the radars of the TSFs, or the missiles themselves. :: The only reasonable explanation is storage. A plane is one block, but its internal volume is concentrated, as opposed to a giant robot that is just full of empty spaces inbetween legs and arms. Shouler blocks are occupied by twin slabs of frontal and rear armor, in addition to the shoulder joint and sub-arms; different models like the Type-94/Type-94-1C and the Type-82 even carry flare/chaff launchers within them, and most 3rd generations have shoulder thrusters, ending the storage debate once and for all. What space is left, using a Type-94's shoulder armor as reference, isn't much to store things. :: Using the F-22A as a base, an idea is to expand its forearms; but then, how many Sidewinders can one fit in? One, maybe two at the max. Knee block armor... maybe, but unless the pilot is looking for a first-shot, first-kill, then it doesn't make sense to carry one missile and have the other hold a CIWS-1B, or ditch the knife for an additional missile and get assasinated without even a single counter by a mad butcher of a Japanese/French/Soviet hiding behind a mountain crest or abandoned building. The Raptor's knife's, compared to the Shiranui or the F-15/F-18's, is hard enough to draw out in close combat thanks to its completely retarded positioning, thanks. :: With its shoulder blocks occupied by thrusters, an F-22A with extra one-shot weaponry outside of its frame would likely weigh itself down/disrupt its stealth advantage. Giant robot science for stealth aside, making a stealth container for the Raptor would not only weigh it down, but make it a potential combat and information hazard if a) pilots cannot jettison it in the heat of combat, and b) enemy troops beat back the Raptors and recover the stealthed containers. :: Sacrificing an additional assault cannon for a multi-shot launch rail for the missiles fixed to the rear (which removes the suggestion of stuffing even one missile in the knee block because that affects its launch capability) is also somewhat of a no-no; the 66th Hunter had no guarantees that halfway through 12/5 the BETA wouldn't just suddenly pop up (as the revelation of stabs existing as far as the West Coast of Japan had proven was possible, although at that time they didn't know it), deny them airspace and proceed to overrun all the troops present; in fact, if they had only one assault cannon in such a theoretical situation, it was highly likely that the BETA would aim for them first and easily overwhelm them, being the more technogically-advanced TSF on the field and such. :: With most TSFs limited to close-to-ground combat as opposed to shooting other units out of the skies (I'd like to see anything try that when within range of Sado's Magnus Lux), getting a clear, long-range reading on an opponent with a BVR missile, or even a heatseeker, suddenly becomes a lot more difficult, especially if you're fighting in mountains and ruined cities. You may ask how often does that happen, but given the geography of the frontline areas/insurgent hotspots and their proximity to a Hive (Japan, Sakhalin, Kamchatka, Thailand and North Malaysia, West India, the European West Coast, North Africa, Central/South America), how often will a theoretical anti-insurgent F-22A team get open-ground conditions like those enjoyed by the Infinities in Yukon? *'Why Don't They Use X-class BETA as cover?' :: As Keith Blazer and our Most Holy Physical Liege, Lord of Lords of War Guylos McCloud The Eternal Grand Musculario of the Glorious Council of the Secret Earth Society of Muscle Wizards proved, nothing is impossible in combat. In fact, we even get scrubs like Yui & Friends using dead BETA to reduce their profile and their chances of being targeted by Lux-class BETA, and during the Defence of Yokohama the UN troops were doing fairly well using dead Destroyer-class shells to prevent the still-alive ones form charging their defensive positions. That takes care of the serious side. :: Well, actually Keith and Guylos were using the BETA as cover, but the Laser-class were still getting ready to fire. Looks like using precision shots to snipe at TSFs isn't entirely out of the equation either, so keep that in mind. :: Then you have "pick up the BETA/tie them to the TSF" arguments. While kind of silly, I won't dispute their effectiveness since the BETA do take into consideration dead bodies... until you realize that 36mm rounds will pulp anything that's not a Grappler-sized object into liquid mush, and beyond that they're just too large to move around effectively unless you happen to be the Angry Eishi. Spend time cutting them into chunks? Well, you could, but it's not like the smaller strains (Tanks) are going to give you a wide berth just because you have some chunks of their friends hanging around. You could cover the entire TSF, although farming up the meat storage will be a hassle. This assumes, of course, that the BETA recognize their friends even in chunk.gif mode. :: This viewpoint can only be used if the BETA are attacking a small defensive position, or if surgical strikes are your objective. Applying this to large-scale, wide-area offensive operations like the Sadogashima Hive battle is nonsensical because what you want to do is press on and secure the Reactor; you will have cover, but you're not always going to be in it. Add in the fact that enemy numbers are limitless and left or right, offensive or defensive, best get ready for an epic buttfuck. :: Regardless of situations, use this tactic wisely; engage not the BETA when their supply is limitless (as opposed to Rodeo Lux at Yukon). You can hole up behind a wall of corpses forever, but if you've watched the first Starship Troopers movie than you know full well what's going to happen next once you lose the offensive initiative. Category:Blog posts